Selling beer and wine in Morton—the will of the people
My book—The Black Sword: The Secret U.S. Army in Vietnam—is available by mail (not yet in book stores). See post on July 31, 2008 entitled The Black Sword.
I suggest you check out the following website if you are a policy holder of Farmers Insurance Group or thinking about having them insure you in any capacity: www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com
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https://affiliates.visionforum.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=367
The above link is for a company—Vision Forum—that provides unique products for the family. I am an affiliate for the company and receive a small commission whenever someone uses this link and then makes an unreturned purchase while using the link. Check it out. I think you might like the products offered. I do. See my more complete explanation on my post of February 1, 2008 entitled “Affiliate program with Vision Forum.”
Based upon past historical data: 3,287+ UNBORN BABY MURDERS have occurred in the last 24 hours in the United States. See my post “BABY HOLOCAUST” posted January 22, 2008.
I’ve been involved in a problem one of my clients has with Farmers Insurance Group. My previous posts in relation to this problem were:
September 10, 2007 post: “Beware of Farmers Insurance Group”
September 11, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Group’s response”
September 18, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Company received the requested list”
September 19, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Company’s response to the list”
October 16, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Group and my request for information”
November 27, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Group does not respond to my request”
January 11, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group latest stall”
January 12, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group is sent a response”
January 14, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group pays some money”
January 19, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group continues to be obstinate”
January 26, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group receives another request”
February 11, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group shows how low they will go?”
February 12, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group: If I were going to respond to the final letter”
February 13, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group and associated companies”
February 14, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group and how others rate the company”
I will not be continuing my Creationism posts today. I do not plan to get to them until after the general election in November.
I do plan to discuss Iraq before the election. I am sorry for the change in plans. Plans, in reality, often are altered for one reason or another. “The best laid plans … often go astray.” Thank you for your understanding and patience.
How many unborn toddlers were murdered today because of the humanistic, paganish, barbaric decisions of the United States Supreme Court?
Stop the
Murder of
Unborn
Toddlers
“Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.” James 4: 17 (NIV)
www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com
www.childpredators.com
www.lifedynamics.com
www.libertylegal.org
www.alliancedefensefund.org
www.searchtv.org
I plan to answer comments on selling beer and wine in Morton in grocery stores for the rest of this month and then turn my attention to the general election concentrating on the Presidential election. Tonight, a comment concerning how elected officials determine their vote on an issue and my response to that comment. The comment as written:
“Anonymous said
Why should there be a vote on this particular issue as opposed to any other. Elected officials face issues like this all of the time where the public opinion on the issues might not be well known or clear and the elected officials have to make a decisions based on what they thing is right and what best represents the interest and views of there electorate in many cases this applies to far more important issues than grocery stores being able to sell wine and beer. On the other hand if you think that issues like this should be directly voted on then perhaps we should move to direct democracy instead of representative republic.
4: 52 PM”
The last sentence of the anonymous comment was the following: “On the other hand if you think that issues like this should be directly voted on then perhaps we should move to direct democracy instead of representative republic.” Not recalling ever saying that a referendum should be held on this issue, I reread my post from that night. The following paragraph is the ONLY reference I could find in relation to a referendum.
My original post: “Interestingly (and this was NOT covered by the two TV news stations that I watched during the 10 PM news), before the vote on the amendments, there was a proposal to put the amendments on the November ballot as an advisory referendum. That proposal received a three to three vote with Trustee Betsy Yarcho voting for putting the amendment on the ballot. I think she would rather have had the people decide than her since she is up for reelection in April. The mayor voted to break the tie and NOT have the amendments placed on the ballot. The mayor’s term also expires in April.” In fact, I was just reporting what happened at the Village Board that night. Why do some readers read into material information, statements, and concepts that are not there?
In fact, I don’t believe that it is generally possible to know with certainty what the “will of the people” is on issues that are before this Board or any other Board. When I was a school board member in Arizona, my philosophy was and still is today that the voters elected me to make the decisions of the Board along with the other representatives based upon my understanding of the issue or issues involved. I tried very hard to receive as much input from the community as they were willing to provide, to research the topic as best I could, and to draw from my knowledge and experience as an individual who has a degree in political science and who had taught in public school systems. Ultimately, I made my decision based upon what I thought was best for the school district. If a majority of the voters disagreed with my decisions over the course of the four years, it was their responsibility to vote me out of office.
Also of benefit in the political process and concepts that I support, Arizona allows its citizens the power of initiative, referendum, and recall. While I was living in Arizona, I don’t think there was a Statewide general election where one or more such issues were not on the ballot. In fact, I was actively involved in recalling a governor. I think all three of these practices would be beneficial for Illinois although I don’t believe any of the three will become part of the Illinois Constitution at this time or in the near future.
However, in my four years on the school board, I never once claimed that my vote was the overwhelming majority will of the people as all four of the present Trustees who voted for the amendments did. To me, to claim to be voting according to the will of the citizens of Morton, minutes after voting to NOT hold an advisory referendum is sheer HYPOCRISY. And as I stated in my previous post, demonstrates a lack of trust in the voters and also a lack of trust in their own ability to know what the actual will of the people is. As I also stated, the only way I know to actually know the will of the people is by a VOTE of the people—public opinion polls will NOT do it and e-mails, phone calls, and random conversations will NOT do it. I have NEVER claimed that my position on the amendments is the will of the people; four of the Trustees DID!!!
Another benefit for a referendum (and remember I never called for a referendum on this issue) is that both sides can present their arguments for their positions publicly. As far as I know, neither the mayor nor any of the four Trustees who voted for the amendments has ever publicly given concrete, specific information to support their vote for the amendments other than their claim based upon e-mails, phone calls and conversations that it was the will of the people. The closest to such an attempt, that I can recall, is that Trustee Newhouse claimed that the FBI statistics of 2005 (if I remember the year correctly) supported his position but, even then, he did not give the specifics to support that contention. I can say FBI statistics for the last ten years support my position but that does not necessarily make it true. Certainly, none of the supporters of the amendments gave concrete, specific information at the last two public Board of Trustees meetings.
If a referendum had been held and a majority of the citizens voting had supported the amendments then, I, at least, would have accepted their vote. I would still believe they were wrong but I would have accepted the will of the people. Now, our alternative is to remove the supporters of the amendments from office. I’m not opposed to that but that will not be as definitive as a direct vote of the people on that one issue. People tend to vote for an individual for many different reasons some of which have absolutely nothing to do with the issues of the day. Consequently, an election to retain the current Trustees still would not definitively establish the will of the people on this issue. And, as I have repeatedly said, each of the four Trustees CLAIMED to know the will of the people.
Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y!!!
“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters.” [said by JESUS] Luke 11: 23 (NIV)
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.” I Corinthians 3: 19a (NIV)
“For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.” II Timothy 1: 7 (NIV)
“Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.” James 4: 17 (NIV)
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” Galatians 6: 7-8 (NIV)
My book—The Black Sword: The Secret U.S. Army in Vietnam—is available by mail (not yet in book stores). See post on July 31, 2008 entitled The Black Sword.
I suggest you check out the following website if you are a policy holder of Farmers Insurance Group or thinking about having them insure you in any capacity: www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com
https://affiliates.visionforum.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=367
The above link is for a company—Vision Forum—that provides unique products for the family. I am an affiliate for the company and receive a small commission whenever someone uses this link and then makes an unreturned purchase while using the link. Check it out. I think you might like the products offered. I do. See my more complete explanation on my post of February 1, 2008 entitled “Affiliate program with Vision Forum.”
Based upon past historical data: 3,287+ UNBORN BABY MURDERS have occurred in the last 24 hours in the United States. See my post “BABY HOLOCAUST” posted January 22, 2008.
I’ve been involved in a problem one of my clients has with Farmers Insurance Group. My previous posts in relation to this problem were:
September 10, 2007 post: “Beware of Farmers Insurance Group”
September 11, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Group’s response”
September 18, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Company received the requested list”
September 19, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Company’s response to the list”
October 16, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Group and my request for information”
November 27, 2007 post: “Farmers Insurance Group does not respond to my request”
January 11, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group latest stall”
January 12, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group is sent a response”
January 14, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group pays some money”
January 19, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group continues to be obstinate”
January 26, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group receives another request”
February 11, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group shows how low they will go?”
February 12, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group: If I were going to respond to the final letter”
February 13, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group and associated companies”
February 14, 2008 post: “Farmers Insurance Group and how others rate the company”
I will not be continuing my Creationism posts today. I do not plan to get to them until after the general election in November.
I do plan to discuss Iraq before the election. I am sorry for the change in plans. Plans, in reality, often are altered for one reason or another. “The best laid plans … often go astray.” Thank you for your understanding and patience.
How many unborn toddlers were murdered today because of the humanistic, paganish, barbaric decisions of the United States Supreme Court?
Stop the
Murder of
Unborn
Toddlers
“Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.” James 4: 17 (NIV)
www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com
www.childpredators.com
www.lifedynamics.com
www.libertylegal.org
www.alliancedefensefund.org
www.searchtv.org
I plan to answer comments on selling beer and wine in Morton in grocery stores for the rest of this month and then turn my attention to the general election concentrating on the Presidential election. Tonight, a comment concerning how elected officials determine their vote on an issue and my response to that comment. The comment as written:
“Anonymous said
Why should there be a vote on this particular issue as opposed to any other. Elected officials face issues like this all of the time where the public opinion on the issues might not be well known or clear and the elected officials have to make a decisions based on what they thing is right and what best represents the interest and views of there electorate in many cases this applies to far more important issues than grocery stores being able to sell wine and beer. On the other hand if you think that issues like this should be directly voted on then perhaps we should move to direct democracy instead of representative republic.
4: 52 PM”
The last sentence of the anonymous comment was the following: “On the other hand if you think that issues like this should be directly voted on then perhaps we should move to direct democracy instead of representative republic.” Not recalling ever saying that a referendum should be held on this issue, I reread my post from that night. The following paragraph is the ONLY reference I could find in relation to a referendum.
My original post: “Interestingly (and this was NOT covered by the two TV news stations that I watched during the 10 PM news), before the vote on the amendments, there was a proposal to put the amendments on the November ballot as an advisory referendum. That proposal received a three to three vote with Trustee Betsy Yarcho voting for putting the amendment on the ballot. I think she would rather have had the people decide than her since she is up for reelection in April. The mayor voted to break the tie and NOT have the amendments placed on the ballot. The mayor’s term also expires in April.” In fact, I was just reporting what happened at the Village Board that night. Why do some readers read into material information, statements, and concepts that are not there?
In fact, I don’t believe that it is generally possible to know with certainty what the “will of the people” is on issues that are before this Board or any other Board. When I was a school board member in Arizona, my philosophy was and still is today that the voters elected me to make the decisions of the Board along with the other representatives based upon my understanding of the issue or issues involved. I tried very hard to receive as much input from the community as they were willing to provide, to research the topic as best I could, and to draw from my knowledge and experience as an individual who has a degree in political science and who had taught in public school systems. Ultimately, I made my decision based upon what I thought was best for the school district. If a majority of the voters disagreed with my decisions over the course of the four years, it was their responsibility to vote me out of office.
Also of benefit in the political process and concepts that I support, Arizona allows its citizens the power of initiative, referendum, and recall. While I was living in Arizona, I don’t think there was a Statewide general election where one or more such issues were not on the ballot. In fact, I was actively involved in recalling a governor. I think all three of these practices would be beneficial for Illinois although I don’t believe any of the three will become part of the Illinois Constitution at this time or in the near future.
However, in my four years on the school board, I never once claimed that my vote was the overwhelming majority will of the people as all four of the present Trustees who voted for the amendments did. To me, to claim to be voting according to the will of the citizens of Morton, minutes after voting to NOT hold an advisory referendum is sheer HYPOCRISY. And as I stated in my previous post, demonstrates a lack of trust in the voters and also a lack of trust in their own ability to know what the actual will of the people is. As I also stated, the only way I know to actually know the will of the people is by a VOTE of the people—public opinion polls will NOT do it and e-mails, phone calls, and random conversations will NOT do it. I have NEVER claimed that my position on the amendments is the will of the people; four of the Trustees DID!!!
Another benefit for a referendum (and remember I never called for a referendum on this issue) is that both sides can present their arguments for their positions publicly. As far as I know, neither the mayor nor any of the four Trustees who voted for the amendments has ever publicly given concrete, specific information to support their vote for the amendments other than their claim based upon e-mails, phone calls and conversations that it was the will of the people. The closest to such an attempt, that I can recall, is that Trustee Newhouse claimed that the FBI statistics of 2005 (if I remember the year correctly) supported his position but, even then, he did not give the specifics to support that contention. I can say FBI statistics for the last ten years support my position but that does not necessarily make it true. Certainly, none of the supporters of the amendments gave concrete, specific information at the last two public Board of Trustees meetings.
If a referendum had been held and a majority of the citizens voting had supported the amendments then, I, at least, would have accepted their vote. I would still believe they were wrong but I would have accepted the will of the people. Now, our alternative is to remove the supporters of the amendments from office. I’m not opposed to that but that will not be as definitive as a direct vote of the people on that one issue. People tend to vote for an individual for many different reasons some of which have absolutely nothing to do with the issues of the day. Consequently, an election to retain the current Trustees still would not definitively establish the will of the people on this issue. And, as I have repeatedly said, each of the four Trustees CLAIMED to know the will of the people.
Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y!!!
“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters.” [said by JESUS] Luke 11: 23 (NIV)
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.” I Corinthians 3: 19a (NIV)
“For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.” II Timothy 1: 7 (NIV)
“Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.” James 4: 17 (NIV)
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” Galatians 6: 7-8 (NIV)
posted by Christian Gunslinger at 4:57 AM
2 Comments:
Based off the information given in your previous blog it would seem that the 4 trustee are not the only ones that claimed that their position was the will of the people, since Mrs. Ginger Herman made claims that were pretty much the same as the 4 trustee that voted for the measure but her claims were of support running the opposite direction. I dont see any difference in her statements than those made by the four other trustees.
While your original post might not directly say that you supported a referendum it certainly implies at a few points:
"The only conclusion I can draw is that at least three of the Trustees don’t seem to TRUST the citizens. If the four Trustees are correct that a vast majority of the community supports the amendments, they should welcome a public vote to substantiate their position and to prove that the public does, indeed, support the amendments. The ONLY way I know to substantiate that claim is to ALLOW the VOTERS to vote on the issue"
"The only way in a democracy to specifically know the will of the people is by a VOTE of the people. The three Trustees along with the mayor seem to be afraid of the actual RESULT of a vote of the people.
Why is that?"
The way that you have written those lines can certainly indicate to a any reasonable person that you think the issues should be voted on.
Had you been a member of the village board for this vote, which way would you have voted if 75% (3 of 4) of the people you spoke to about the matter were in favor? I could be wrong by assuming that you would still vote no. Now that would be hypocrisy, as Chomsky defines the word.
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